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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:30:00 -
[1]
Well ....
First off - Destroyers are fine for Level I missions. They chew through frigates as fast as you can lock them and with a good afterburner can easily kite them. Put 5 150mm Rail guns on your Cormorant and any Level I mission in this game is cake. Load Anti-Matter to start in case you get dumped into the middle of a mess by the mission, then AB away as you blast the rats close to you.
For range, unless you've got your missile skills fully trained with Bombardment and Prjection - those 150's will outrange Standard Missiles with Iridium Ammo.
And - if you foul up and lose a ship you shouldn't have lost - you'll have lost a destroyer instead of a Cruiser. You'll have plenty of opportunity to screw up and lose Cruisers once you get to Level II's which are at least paying you more money.
Spend your time running Level I's building up your support skills in Destroyers - and then maybe when you start doing Level II's in Cruisers you won't lose them so often.
Use the right tool for the job. Destroyers are the ships best fit to run Level I missions. Get their agro, let them chase you and them blow them up with your 150mm's as you kite them along. The rats in level I's have mostly short range guns and wont' be able to touch you - unless you get webbed. For the mission with the stasis tower - blow it up first.
Now then ... if you're more concerned with Excitement than losing ships ... fit blasters on a Thorax and dive right into them.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.13 05:40:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: TraininVain
Thing with destroyers is you may as well just hop in a cruiser. The gap in ISK and skills is tiny. As soon as you've put any effort at all into being in a dessie you could've been in a cruiser.
.
This was exactly what I thought when I skipped destroyers and went straight to Cruisers. Then, after getting some Cruisers blown up for no good reason ... I started using destroyers to blow up frigates and haven't lost a one.
Part of the problem with being a new person who easily gets into a Cruiser is - you don't know what the **** you are doing. You're sailing about in a ship that is much to big for the skills you have and worst of all - you get an un-warranted impression of the power and majesty of your Cruiser. Then you do something you shouldn't do and get it blown up.
Make your mistakes - you will make them - in something cheap. Sure, a T1 Cruiser is cheap compared to a Battleship but it is expensive for a new player getting their income from Level I missions.
THE most common rookie mistake in EVE is going up in ship size before you are ready.
People think that bigger is better and only learn to their sorrow how very wrong they are.
Level I missions require minimal weapons skills - so what you should be skilling while doing your Level I missions - is your support skills. Then - when you get into your Cruiser and run Level II's - you'll have some moderately decent Cap, CPU, Power Grid, Shield and Armor skills - and maybe won't get your shiny new Cruiser blown up so easily.
It isn't getting into a Cruiser once that is hard for a new person - it is replacing them ... then replacing them again ... and again ... because they didn't know what they were doing, had a farce for a tank and kept getting them blown up.
After I put away the cruisers I was using as a new person and went to destroyers ... when I came back ... I had a really good laugh at how I had fitted those Cruisers. I had no idea what I was doing. All in all ... I'm surprised I didn't lose more than I did.
Oh ... and for those who obviously didn't get it - that bit about the Blaster Armmed Thorax diving into the midst of a bunch of mission rats ... was not a serious recommendation but rather a "do this and you'll learn why not to do things like this" comment.
You want to Kite your Level I and II rats - not dive into the midst of them.
They are crappy little ships with powerful short range weapons. The solution to lots of crappy little ships with short range weapons that want to swarm you - is to kite them. Destroyers are faster than cruisers. Thus, they can more easily outrun the swarms of crappy little frigates and take them out from beyond their weapons range. If you have a Cruiser - you can still do that - but you're ship handling needs to be a bit better to manage it. You need to know how close you can go before turning away and getting your AB's going - and how to manage your speed so you don't outrun them.
With big cap eating guns on those cruisers its a lot better to really understand your Cap and have the skills trained to deal with it.
I never had the cap problems on a Destroyer from the use of my own weapons that I have with Cruisers - and that is WITH my cap skills trained up.
But don't listen to me - you go right ahead and fly those cruisers if you want to. If you get them blown up - I'm not the one who's going to be paying for them.
Oh ... yes ... and Insurance ... I don't insure my PVE ships. I don't need to because I'm not going to get them blown up. After paying far more in insurance premiums than I ever would have paid to replace the ships I lost (not to mention the transportation problems of not being able to repackage them ...) I gave up on insuring ships. After all - there is a default insurance of 40% that is free. When you insure your ship - you're paying for levels above that.
Yes - it is easy to get into big ships fast. To easy. Do it at your own peril.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/05/2009 15:34:28
Using more of a tool to do a job than you need to is NOT being efficient.
You will be slaughtering frigates in a destroyer as fast as you can target them. Getting a Cruiser can't improve on that.
Thus - there is NO need for a Cruiser for Level I missions.
You are using an overly expensive ship to do poorly paying missions for new people that don't have loads of cash.
It is a mistake.
As to training - as I said - you should be doing your support skills training in Engineering, Electronics, Mechanic and Navigation during your Level I missions, then about the time your status is good enough to get a good Level II agent - start training your weapons skills up - then move on into a Cruiser and do your Level II's. While you are doing your Level II's you can be training whatever skills you still need trained for Level III's.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:21:00 -
[4]
Ah ... Fallacies Galore ...
Between the argument that you can just use Frigates for Level I's and the argument that you should use Cruisers for Level I's ... I'm not sure which is more absurd.
1) Other than the Destroyers skill itself there is no extra training required over that to use a Frigate. That training time is insignificant compared to what you get out of it compared to using a frigate. There is a horrendous leap in skills required from those you need for frigates to use a Cruiser properly. Just training Destroyers I gets you a vastly better ship than a frigate - so the whole "divergent path" and "taking a hit to your long term training" type arguments are completely bogus. AND since you can use them as Salvagers even after you move on to Level II missions and get into Cruisers - they are hardly a waste of space in the hangar. If they were - then you could just freaking sell the thing like you do with any other ship that has outlived it's usefulness.
2) My guess is that all the people who jumped from frigates to cruisers never spent any time in destroyers and thus have no idea what they are talking about. They certainly have no idea what they are talking about ... I'm just assuming that that is why. To say that you can just run Level I's in a Frigate ignores the fact that destroyers are vastly more effective than frigates, especially when salvaging. Look at "When Worlds Collide" - that mission is so much faster to run and salvage with destroyers than frigates it is no comparison. Sure ... you can run all your Level I missions in a Frigate - but why would you? Unless you are just in it for the challenge - there is no reason.
3) Saying that destroyers cost a million ISK and that cruisers only cost a mere 4 million ISK is the height of absurdity. The Cruiser costs 4 times as much! If you are a new person 4 million ISK is still a good bit of money. Especially if you are trying to raise it by doing Level I missions. How long has it been since any of you people were new? It's going to cost you as much as it would a Destroyer every 3 months just for the insurance if you insure it - and - it's going to cost you 4 million a pop every time you lose one if you don't.
4) As to justifying my liking to fly a particular ship - that is precisely what you people are doing. You just want to fly Cruisers so you're trying to justify using them on Level I missions. That's all this is.
My arguments above are completely valid - your arguments are completely false.
You're WRONG and you just don't want to admit it.
As I said - if you're an experienced player and want to run Level I missions in Cruisers - go ahead. But if you're advising new people to do that - it is a mistake - and they are going to be the ones paying for it. Obviously, you people have forgotten what it was like when a Million ISK was a lot of money.
I ran a lot of missions in Frigates because people said that Destroyers were lame. They were wrong and wasted my time.
I bought Cruisers and Skipped Destroyers because people said that Destroyers were lame. They were wrong and cost me a lot of money.
I have used Destroyers on Level I missions and found them to be the best tool for that job.
I have Cruisers and Could use them on Level I missions - but if I have to run a Level I mission for some corporation I'm trying to build my status with - I use a Destroyer to do it - because it does a BETTER job than the Cruiser. It is FASTER for one thing and it pops rats just as fast as I can lock them. Then I come back with my Salvager Destroyer with it's MWD and clean that mission up fast.
Ah well ... you people just gave some bad advice and now you're trying to save face. I'm sure you meant well but you're wrong and should stop trying to avoid being embarrassed by being wrong. You're only making yourselves look even sillier.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.15 02:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 15/05/2009 03:00:32
Originally by: TraininVain
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2) .... I have tried all three approaches and I know what kind of carebearing makes my wallet go up quickest 
OK ... so ... you weren't a new person when you started using Cruisers to run Level I missions then. You ran them in frigates and destroyers and - by the time you started running missions in Cruisers - you had some idea of how to tank them and the skills to fit them with Cruiser sized weapons. Right?
Remember the part where I said that if you weren't a new person and wanted to run Level I's in Cruisers that was OK. It was a waste of a ship but it was OK?
If you know what you're doing - do anything you want. If you aren't a new person and get that Cruiser blown up because you made a mistake (and we all make mistakes now and again) then you probably have the money to pay for replacing it.
But don't get into a Cruiser the first week you're playing the game - just because you can. Sailing around with a Cruiser fitting nothing but a frigate style tank and frigate guns - is a mistake. That is what I'm trying to get across.
The point is - that new people do those kind of things all the time because they don't know any better.
I've seen people laughing in local about the kill mail for a Dominix some guy was sailing about fitted with 150mm guns ... so it could be worse ... "But that's all I had in the hangar ..."
I always run Level I missions in a Destroyer. That is how I think it is best to do that. If you, as another experienced player, want to run those same missions in your cruiser - I don't care - I disagree with you but you've got enough experience to do whatever you want to do.
As to the guns ... yeah (and I knew you were going to bring that up) there is the rate of fire penalty and of course if you do like I ... usually do ... and fit like 5 150's because that's all the Power Grid I've got after the tank, then it's going to vary. To some degree I prefer to trade range and hitting power for density of fire. That has worked out for me. On other occasions I've fit like 8 Light Beam Lasers to a Coercer. *shrug* So as to the number of guns you fit ... that all depends on a number of different things. And - you're still belittling a significant increase in fire power. So what if it's ONLY twice as much? You forgot to mention the range you can engage targets in though - didn't you? Destroyers have a significant locking range advantage over Frigates. And - they can fit a better tank.
Now as to this wasting training time crap ... how long does it take to get to Destroyers III? Hunh? A few hours? Is that all that big a deal? "Oh My God!!! I spent several ENTIRE Hours training Destroyers! Think how much progress I could have made towards my Battleship in that time!!!!" Give me a frakking break. Are you going to nit pick every single solitary skill someone trains? "Oh - better not train that skill - it will take 8 hours off your training time for your Dreadnought!" That Dreadnought might still be years away but - every hour counts! 
However - yes - you did answer the question the OP asked. If the OP was going to go into a Cruiser - you gave him good information ... for someone who is ONLY going to do PVE ... at least according to the EVE dogma about Missile Boats.
Better advice - would have been NOT to get into a cruiser as a new player, to wait until you could equip and tank it properly.
The thing is - tell a new player to fit a ship the way you did and - what are they really going to do? They're NOT going to go out and get the skills first for everything you mentioned - that's NOT what new players do - they get the damn ship first and then sail it around fitted with whatever happens to be in their frakking hangar. That's what new players do because they're oh so excited about getting that big fancy ship. Just like I was.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.15 12:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: TraininVain
Edited by: TraininVain on 15/05/2009 03:33:50
Fitting 5 guns is ... the same damage as a skilled up frigate.
That was 5 guns WITH a tank. The reason you didn't get a reply to this before the servers went down was that I was off doing calculations as to just what could be fitted. To many apples and oranges though. Suffice it to say that with a Power Grid nearly twice as big as a Frigate a destroyer can fit a lot more stuff which the pilot can divide up as he sees fit between tank and gank.
Quote:
L1 stuff pops so quickly the bulk of the time is spent locking up new targets tbh.
Yes it does. So - why risk a cruiser a new person can ill afford to lose when a Destroyer will do the job?
Quote:
AMLs use standard missile skill. Drones are their own skill tree which you'll want to skill up whatever you plan to end up in. None of these require much in the way of fitting skills since they're light on grid / don't use grid.
Most new people don't know what an AML is. Also, Drones and Missiles are two separate weapons paths, neither of which is as simple to use as a gun. Everyone starts off in a Rookie ship with a gun. All the Rookie ships will carry a drone but unless they're Gallente, and I'm not sure about that now, they won't start off with any drone skills. So you're asking a bunch of rookies to use two weapons systems instead of one - and - even if they do fit guns - they've got all those tracking problems with cruiser sized guns. It isn't just a question of skilling it's a question of understanding how these weapons systems work. Having the skill is one thing but understanding from experience how to use it is another. A Cruiser is a much more capable ship than a Frigate or a Destroyer but with that capability comes a complexity that takes some time to learn.
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As I said earlier, the cruiser/weapon combos we're talking about are very forgiving.
Yes and if rookie's can figure out anything it's their weapons. But that's not the problem. I HAD the right weapons on all those Cruisers I lost. The problem was that I had no idea how to TANK them. Tanking is a lot more complicated than just slapping on some guns. The other thing is ... rookies don't understand the ways an inherently slower ship such as a cruiser needs to protect itself from faster ships such as frigates.
And - all of this is ignoring cap issues. Cruisers have bigger capacitors but a large part of keeping them alive is understanding cap management and how it is effected by not only weapons systems but shields and armor repairs.
All in all, to best use any ship, there is a lot to learn in EVE. Besides all the weapons paths, there are all the support skills as well, not to mention things like how the market works, the Solar System Security Levels and a ton of other stuff. Given time most of us are able to learn these things but when you're a rookie - it's best to start simple and work your way up. Destroyers are a step on that ladder and it is a mistake to skip them. Learning, making your mistakes in smaller ships is what you want to do.
Quote:
Standard EVE rule of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" applies, but when doesn't it?
Precisely - and exactly why rookies shouldn't be flying cruisers.
Frigates and Destroyers are a lot cheaper to replace and if you insure them - a lot cheaper to insure. Frigates and Destroyers are so cheap - that most of us don't bother to insure them but if a rookie's going to insure anything it would be a cruiser he can barely afford to buy - much less replace. But then that's something else he's going to have to pay for and - even if he does insure it - insurance won't pay for all those cruiser sized modules that are more expensive than their Frigate/Destroyer sized equivalents. And - that's one more lesson a rookie needs to learn.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.16 04:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker
On my first char I skipped destroyer pretty much totally. As I switched into a Caracal for lvl 2 I didn't have much problems.
Later I started a new alt and basicly pushed him as fast as I could. I couldn't fit a decent armor tank, heh, anything decent, tbh, but the char was sitting in a Vexor and was flying lvl 1 missions without problems. Those lvl 1 missions hardly ever scratched the shields of the Vexor.
I expect something similar being true for BC ins lvl 2 missions. Granted, it is neither challenging nor great, but fact is, a cruiser has unbonused a much bigger tank than any frig. So you will be able to fly lvl 1 sooner safer than you'd be able to with frigs.
Two suggestions:
1) Don't screw up.
2) Don't take on another player in that cruiser.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: aDore Him
...
Question 1:
What will you fight mainly? Frigates.
Question 2:
What kills frigates?
...
Destroyers.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:51:00 -
[9]
There was someone around here who had a sig that showed a picture of the undock button.
The caption to that was "Pressing this is consenting to non-consensual PVP."
I didn't lose my two cruisers to rats. I was flying around in them with no clue how to use them - and had run ins with other players. Because I had only run missions in them I had as a new player an entirely incorrect impression of their power and majesty. I got popped both times by guys in frigates who knew what they were doing - when I did not.
Every time you undock you take a chance on losing your ship. Every Single Frakking Time.
Since you do not need a Cruiser to run Level I missions - you are risking a more expensive ship to no good purpose.
And ... people can screw up in even Level I missions.
Now - as I have said before in this specific thread - if you're a veteran and have the money to throw away using cruisers on Level I missions - do whatever you want.
But - it is a waste of a ship - and if you're a new player - you really don't need some guy who was lucky enough to never really screw up and lose his cruiser telling you otherwise.
Oh ... and the comment about "Destroyer Huggers" is asinine. They're all just frakking tools. Use the right tool for the job.
But don't be here on the New Citizens Forum confusing new players into wasting their money doing something that is for them - a mistake. They don't have the skills to even hope to fly a cruiser well much less the money to afford to lose one. Look at the guy a few posts up. He got into a cruiser he couldn't even afford to insure - and then lost it. For a new player that is devastating - AND THEY DO IT ALL THE FRAKKING TIME!!!!!!
The problem is - new players almost all want to get into bigger ships as fast as they can. Which is almost universally a mistake. What they need - is to be told not to do that until they can afford to lose them. Given the paltry amount of money they are getting paid to do Level I missions - it's a lot harder to replace a cruiser than it is a destroyer.
But I've said all that before.
Some people are just to thick headed to get it.
Just because you've gotten away with it - doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake.
Yes. Anyone who gets their ship blown up running missions - lost it because they made a mistake. Mission running is easy. The rats are stupid. But - people aren't perfect - and EVERYONE makes mistakes - including you I'll bet.
It's always better to make your mistakes in cheaper ships.
If you don't need a more expensive ship to do a job - why risk one?
Now ... as to telling lies ... do you even know what a lie is?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:09:00 -
[10]
Ah ... the old Off Topic gambit - the final refuge of people who've lost an argument.
There's a reason I mentioned PVP that you don't seem to get.
The point was - that using a cruiser to fly missions - gives a new player a false impression of how powerful it is. That is what happened to me. I flew Level I missions in my cruiser and then had other players steal from me - so - because I thought the thing was a lot more powerful than it was - and didn't understand just how vast the difference between PVP and PVE was - because I was a new player - I took these guys on.
I got an education in just how wrong I was. It wasn't that I didn't think PVP would be different - it's that I thought having a bigger ship would make up for it.
New players do things like that all the time.
If a new player uses a Destroyer to run missions - and they get into it over a stolen item with some other player - they will use that Destroyer to take that other player on with, especially if he's in a frigate. That is the kind of thing new players do. Then they will get blown up in their Destroyer instead of a Cruiser.
What part of ANY TIME YOU UNDOCK - FOR ANY REASON - YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SHIP - do you not understand?
You gave a list of ways people can lose their ships - besides in missions. How many ships do you think new players have? Most of them have like ONE combat ship - and they use that for everything.
That's why all of the above is entirely ON TOPIC.
Of course I screwed up taking on a more experienced player - but I did it to learn something about PVP - the screw up was I simply had no idea how outclassed my cruiser was by they and their frigates.
So - I made my mistake in a more expensive ship. I was out ratting when the second one happened - which is PVE. So I wasn't looking for PVP but - it came to me and I took the guy on - BECAUSE I THOUGHT I COULD BEAT HIM IN A CRUISER. If I'd been in a Destroyer I might or might not have made the same mistake - but it would have cost me a lot less.
Have you even been reading these forums? People get blown up in their mission ships by other players all the frakking time. Pirates LIVE to **** off some guy in his mission ship into taking them on. The ways Pirates kill mission runners are far to numerable for me to list in this thread.
If you think there is some kind of dividing line where you're off running a mission so you're safe from PVP - then you really are a new person - as I can tell you there is NOT.
And - did you even bother to read the post above?
That guy lost his Cruiser in a mission. New people lose cruisers in missions all the time. I've almost lost a cruisers ratting in a complex because I didn't know how to fit them - and - didn't know when to leave.
Sure - rats do take a long time to kill a cruiser that is properly fitted - but what about the new guy who doesn't know how to fit his cruiser?
Have you seen my sig?
Why do you think I've got that bit about kiting and orbiting in my sig? Because I've had to say it to new people who'd lost their ships in local a dozen times or more. They get taught to orbit - so they orbit - do you think they aren't going to orbit just because they've got a cruiser? The last thing in the world you want to do in a cruiser is orbit a frigate - but they'll do that since they don't know any better.
They'll see some mission like Worlds Collide and they'll think "Oh ... I'm in a cruiser. All these other missions have been so easy in my cruiser I'll just dive right into the middle of these guys ..." and then since they've not gotten down into structure before - they don't know when to leave until it's to late - and - oops - bye bye cruiser.
Maybe you're smart enough to not get blown up on a mission by rats. I've never been. Maybe you know enough not to engage in PVP when you're out in your mission ship. When I did it - I did have my ship insured and - had plenty of money to buy another one.
Some new people aren't like us.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:43:00 -
[11]
Your big problem was if you were using the guns as your primary weapon.
The Vexor is a drone boat. Check out it's bonus's.
Compare those to the Thorax which is really a blaster boat - note the MWD bonus ...
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:03:00 -
[12]
You probably want more drones than that ...
You want much better drone skills than you've probably got as well. Drone Interfacing will get you a 20% boost per level trained to what your drones do and then there are a slew of others. You want most of them.
Of course, I'd recommend using a Destroyer for your Level I missions - but - a Vexor is a good Level II boat. Get your drone skills up and you can really hurt the rats from a distance where they can't touch you. I haven't used a Vexor myself - I've got an Arbitrator, which is the Amarr Drone Cruiser but it is very effective as long as it stays away from the rats ...
You can of course use ships for other than their designed purpose but looking at their bonus's gives you an idea of what the ship was designed to do and what it does best.
Now - rail guns were a good choice for running missions - not blasters - as you can kite the enemy and keep away from them - but you need to have a balanced fit - and especially a good 10mn AB to outrun the rats.
Thus, you can use the same ship for PVE and PVP but you want to have entirely different fits.
The Ships and Modules forum is a good place to look for and ask about fitting your ship.
Just keep in mind that there are some veterans in there posting some really odd fits. Mostly these guys have a reason for doing something odd but you pretty much want to be enough of a veteran player to understand just why they did something odd and the costs they are knowingly paying to do that.
If you tell people what ship you want to fit and what you want to do with it - as well as how long you've been playing and your skill point level they'll give you some good advice.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/06/2009 15:32:24
You're doing the right thing.
I thought you were only carrying 3 drones. 
The nos and stuff are more PVP and short range so don't worry about that so much for PVE.
Another thing you want are some of the Drone Augmentation Modules. You can't use the Drone Control Unit on a Cruiser but you can use the other three.
Those will also give your range a buff.
Also - apprently Electronic Warfare Drone Intefacing will increase your range for all your drones ...
The Skill Scout Drone Operation - lets you use your light drones but also give you a control range boost per level.
Oh yeah ... and Cap Bosters ... you start running into cap draining rats in Level II's ... so ... you might want to think about Cap Boosters - though Drones don't use any - so that's a plus.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:52:00 -
[14]
No problem.
There's just a ton of stuff to train when you're new.
Besides your learning skills and weapons skills you've got Navigation, Engineering, Electronics and Mechanic skills to train plus any Social (more money/standings for the same effort) and any Industry Skills you might want.
What I do with a new character now - is to get enough money ... and then go buy a bunch of these skills and train them all up to Level 3. You can do that really quickly and it will get you over half the value you're going to get out of the skill. Always do a show info on a skill before you buy it to make sure you have the prereq's trained. Then, I start working on the Level IVs.
Now - the exception to that - is the base skills in each category. You want to get those to Level V as soon as you can as there are often other skills that are only available once those are trained to IV or V but these are all Rank 1 skills - so even training them to Level V only takes 5 days. That my seem like a long time now ... but trust me ... in EVE ... it isn't ...
Drones V, Engineering V and Electronics V are really important - as they give you a base capability you really need in those areas. You want all 5 drones. You want all the Powergrid you can possibly get. And you want all the CPU you can possibly get.
Ha! Ha! Now I really am Off Topic!!
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